Brandy Source

QuoteMatt Dubay and Lauren Wells had broken up by the time she discovered she was pregnant. The two had only dated for a few months and had polar opposite views on parenthood: Wells wanted to keep the child; Dubay didn't want to become a father. When the state of Michigan pressed him to pay child support, he refused.

The resulting legal battle became one of the most high-profile cases on men's reproductive rights to date. But since the case, which reached its ten-year anniversary this year, not much has changed.

In court, then 25-year-old Dubay put forward a novel legal argument: When a child is unplanned, men should have an equivalent right to a woman's right to abortion. In other words, women can choose if they want to opt out of the legal and financial responsibilities that come with parenthood?by aborting a fetus?and therefore, so should men.

To be clear, Dubay wasn't arguing that a man should actually be able to decide whether or not a woman should have an abortion. Rather, if a woman decides to have the child, the man involved should have the ability to opt out of the legal obligations of fatherhood. That means no legal relationship with the child and no liability to pay child support for the next 18 years.

The presiding judge ruled against Dubay, noting: "If chivalry is not dead, its viability is gravely imperiled by the plaintiff in this case."

The case was dubbed "the male equivalent of Roe v. Wade," with both the National Center for Men and the National Organization for Women chiming in as a media circus unfolded.

"Roe v. Wade gave women control of their reproductive lives, but nothing in the law changed for men," Mel Feit, Director of the National Center for Men, wrote in a press release at the time. "Women now have control of their lives after an unplanned conception but men are routinely forced to give up control, forced to be financially responsible for choices only women are permitted to make, forced to relinquish reproductive choice."

Kim Gandy, then president of the National Organization of Women, told CNN, "Men have been trying to get out of responsibility for their children for years. This one shouldn't get away with it."

Dubay, for his part, would explain his side of the story in a live interview on Dr. Phil:"Forcing me to be a father financially, mentally, and physically is definitely not something that I feel is fair," he said on the show. When grilled about the elephant in the room?contraception?Dubay said they had used condoms initially but not towards the end of their brief relationship. Wells also told him she was on the pill.

By the time of that interview, Wells had given birth. She stayed well out of the limelight but issued a written statement saying her focus was on providing a nurturing home for baby Elizabeth. "I am disappointed that Matt has decided not to participate in Elizabeth's life so far, and has instead chosen to contest any responsibility from our consensual actions last year," she wrote. "I believe life begins at conception and blossoms. I take responsibility for my acts and will do my best, as an adult and a mother, to protect and provide for our daughter."

Dubay appealed, but was again denied. Nancy Gibbs, then a staff writer and now editor of TIME, described the case as a "legal stunt"?but pointed out that "as a way of calling attention to double standards and unintended consequences, the campaign makes sense."

In other words, Dubay never had a shot at winning, but the case sparked a debate worth having. Should men have as much of a right to control their reproductive lives and financial futures as women do?

On the one hand, there's the argument that there should be a level playing field?women and men should both have the right to opt out of parenthood if they want to. A woman can choose whether to have an abortion to keep the child, without the man involved interfering with her choice. However, if she does decide to keep the child, the man should have the right to choose whether he wants to become a father and take on the legal rights and responsibilities that come with that. Both should be able to decide what they want to do, based on their own individual circumstances and beliefs, and neither should be able to interfere with the other person's decision. Essentially, reproductive equality and autonomy, for both genders.

The way this would work in practice is a little murkier. Frances Goldscheider, a now-retired sociology professor at Brown University, was one of the first academics to put forward a proposal for what she called a "financial abortion." It would work something like this: A man would be notified when a child was accidentally conceived, and he would have the opportunity to decide whether or not to undertake the legal rights and responsibilities of parenthood. The decision would need to be made in a short window of time and once the man had made his decision, he would be bound by it for life. This means a guy couldn't decide to opt out of fatherhood a few years down the track when it no longer suited him. The decision would also be recorded legally?perhaps on the child's birth certificate, or in a court order.

But critics point out that equal reproductive rights for men and women are simply not realistic. As the judges in Dubay's case concluded, a woman's right to abortion and a man's right to reject fatherhood are not quite analogous. With abortion, a woman decides whether or not to bring a child into existence. The right of the child to a legal relationship with his or her father?and in particular, the right to financial support to help with the child's upbringing?should trump the right of a man to opt out. Plus, at the end of the day, both parents were responsible for the conception of the child, so both should take responsibility for the child, should that child be born.

Susan Appleton, a professor at the Washington University School of Law, has written extensively on reproduction and regret, most recently for the Yale Journal of Law and Feminism. She told me that in family law, there is a strong policy of "personal responsibility." Or, in other words, "Dubay made the choice to engage in heterosexual intercourse without using contraception himself; he assumed the risk of becoming a parent when he ejaculated."

Appleton teaches cases like Dubay v. Wells to students in her Family Law course who she says love discussing it. "They appreciate Dubay's arguments about unfairness and inequality, but they almost always reach the conclusion that no other outcome is possible."

Ten years later, the status quo that Dubay challenged in Dubay v. Wells remains in place today. And there haven't been many similar lawsuits since, in part because of the precedent set by the outcome of Dubay v. Wells.

Politicians have also declined to propose legislative changes that would allow men to have reproductive rights, perhaps due to the assumption that doing so would open the proverbial floodgates and result in an unprecedented number of men opting out of fatherhood. For the foreseeable future, at least, the idea of a man's right to choose will continue to gather dust in the legal history books.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/exkb9n/should-men-be-able-to-opt-out-of-fatherhood?utm_source=vicefbus

Just wear a condom  :blink:

chhhhhhhhhhhhh

Yes. Some women purposely trap men.

ccxxcccccccv

While I think it's unfortunate to be a single mom

It takes two people to fuck

And okay he wasn't wearing a condom. Unless you were raped, you allowed it to continue

I can't say I fault this guy for not wanting to be a dad

They ALWAYS side with a mom. And I understand it's a huge responsibility to raise a child, but damn, why can't a woman be just as responsible for the act as the man?

Quote from: TonsSOUL on May 07, 2018, 05:39:11 PM
ccxxcccccccv

While I think it's unfortunate to be a single mom

It takes two people to fuck

And okay he wasn't wearing a condom. Unless you were raped, you allowed it to continue

I can't say I fault this guy for not wanting to be a dad

They ALWAYS side with a mom. And I understand it's a huge responsibility to raise a child, but damn, why can't a woman be just as responsible for the act as the man?

oh wait.... I agree with this.

It?s not that hard to get a damn abortion

QuoteKim Gandy, then president of the National Organization of Women, told CNN, "Men have been trying to get out of responsibility for their children for years. This one shouldn't get away with it."

Yes Qween!

It doesn't really matter what any court or judge says, if a man doesn't want to be a father...he won't be one.

And women need to be a bit more self aware and realize that having a baby won't automatically make a man snap into being attentive or mature.

I don't think you should HAVE to get an abortion

Just don't let the faggot nut in you

If you're fine having a baby, that's cool

But if you don't want to, take the measures not to get pregnant

We know what sex leads to: Pregnancy, STDs, and love

If you don't want that shit be responsible enough to prevent it. Don't get mad once the other party says they don't want that shit.

Everyone is just sensitive about it because we're all raised to believe a child is a 'blessing and precious' thing

Quote from: ANIMMAI on May 07, 2018, 05:42:09 PM
It doesn't really matter what any court or judge says, if a man doesn't want to be a father...he won't be one.

And women need to be a bit more self aware and realize that having a baby won't automatically make a man snap into being attentive or mature.

Quote from: TonsSOUL on May 07, 2018, 05:44:01 PM
I don't think you should HAVE to get an abortion

Just don't let the faggot nut in you

If you're fine having a baby, that's cool

But if you don't want to, take the measures not to get pregnant

We know what sex leads to: Pregnancy, STDs, and love

If you don't want that shit be responsible enough to prevent it. Don't get mad once the other party says they don't want that shit.

Everyone is just sensitive about it because we're all raised to believe a child is a 'blessing and precious' thing

these are really good points

QuoteIf a woman can opt out of motherhood then yes a man can opt out of fatherhood. Remember, her body... her choice? She can choose to have an abortion without the man agreeing right, that is opting out of motherhood. I am here for a woman?s right to choose but I will not accept a double standard. Let me say it again because some idiot will surely say I don?t... I SUPPORT A WOMANS RIGHT TO CHOOSE. She can put a baby up for adoption, that is opting out of motherhood and all legal responsibilities.

So why can?t a man sign over all parental rights and legal responsibilities equally as easily?

Don?t care who doesn?t like it. A double standard is a double standard and I won?t support it. So if a woman wants the right to opt out of being a parent then a man should likewise have the same right.

I wouldn?t wanna have a bby with a man who doesn?t want to have one. I?d abort that shit so fast if there?s even a hint of unpleasantness tbh.

well a man don't have a damn human being growing in them for 40 weeks either

If the Baby was made; oh damn well

MAN tf Ahp

First of all your dumbasses shoulda used condoms

But idk it's different if he gave you an indication that he would be in the childs life and left

But if a man tells you upfront I don't want it then as much as it sucks I think it should be in his right. I do think that alot of men like to run and then try to blame the woman for the fact that their child hates them when they finally decide they wanna play papi

I've physically seen a woman have the baby, roll to the dudes house, hold the baby up as a trophy, and then fight the current girlfriend while the baby is sitting on the hood of the car.

and they always accuse the men who don't step up as immature, but overlook the lack of maturity of these women. A little more responsibility could be taken.

so I see his point, but even if they give up legal rights, they're still gonna be called a deadbeat dad. He's just trying to protect his credit :dead:

if u nut in dat gorl
ure both responsible

no escuses
take care of tha fckin bby nigger boy

s

bby sis
r u ah alt-right gorl nows?
:ummwhat:

Quote from: dark goth outta tha box gorl on May 07, 2018, 06:08:36 PM
if u nut in dat gorl
ure both responsible

no escuses
take care of tha fckin bby nigger boy

bgfddddbbbbb

Are you a single mother?

Quote from: SAINT BENTLEY. on May 07, 2018, 06:11:41 PM
s

bby sis
r u ah alt-right gorl nows?
:ummwhat:

hmmm...idk rlly..never rlly thought 'bout it but..now tht u bring it up...

i think ima lite-conserv' wit a splash of libertarian mix wit sprinkles of anarchist
(https://uploadir.com/u/5491pxpe)

Quote from: dark goth outta tha box gorl on May 07, 2018, 06:13:58 PM

Quote from: SAINT BENTLEY. on May 07, 2018, 06:11:41 PM
s

bby sis
r u ah alt-right gorl nows?
:ummwhat:

hmmm...idk rlly..never rlly thought 'bout it but..now tht u bring it up...

i think ima lite-conserv' wit a splash of libertarian mix wit sprinkles of anarchist
(https://uploadir.com/u/5491pxpe)

SBbdbdbd

Wow if u caree about Black People youd be the perfect hotep

If u man enuff 2 shoot up my club u man enuff 2 take care uh da baby

But it?s coo... Even tho neither of my baby daddy?s did they on child support

I mean...they already do...but legally? Sure, I don?t see why not.

You have places where you can be held financially responsible for children if you sign the birth certitificate, a biological basis isn?t always required. Not to mention that in some states, men have a limited window to question paternity and get a test done, and many times they have to foot the bill for those tests...

So yeah...anything to level the playing field imo.

Quote from: Antoi?Nique Hopkins on May 07, 2018, 06:21:49 PM
If u man enuff 2 shoot up my club u man enuff 2 take care uh da baby

But it?s coo... Even tho neither of my baby daddy?s did they on child support

bvvvvvbbbbbv

Quote from: TonsSOUL on May 07, 2018, 06:23:30 PM

Quote from: Antoi?Nique Hopkins on May 07, 2018, 06:21:49 PM
If u man enuff 2 shoot up my club u man enuff 2 take care uh da baby

But it?s coo... Even tho neither of my baby daddy?s did they on child support

bvvvvvbbbbbv

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Quote from: SAINT BENTLEY. on May 07, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
I've physically seen a woman have the baby, roll to the dudes house, hold the baby up as a trophy, and then fight the current girlfriend while the baby is sitting on the hood of the car.

and they always accuse the men who don't step up as immature, but overlook the lack of maturity of these women. A little more responsibility could be taken.

so I see his point, but even if they give up legal rights, they're still gonna be called a deadbeat dad. He's just trying to protect his credit :dead:

fdsjsnbvcsghdoprknvhgckmnbvcccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

do u live in a tyler perry play

IMJN
H
BR
GBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB5

Quote from: ANIMMAI on May 07, 2018, 06:36:30 PM
do u live in a tyler perry play

ssssssssssssssssssssssss

oof ... chile I hurried in my cousin's house
(https://i.imgur.com/z3xf3DM.gif)

Quote from: BowDown on May 07, 2018, 05:50:47 PM
I wouldn?t wanna have a bby with a man who doesn?t want to have one. I?d abort that shit so fast if there?s even a hint of unpleasantness tbh.

Yea, I agree with this bitch. I wish more nigresses would have this mindset tbh.

But fr
Do women get that option too? b

It's 50/50. You can't opt out of something you signed up for now on the other hand if he said, I don't wanna be a dad then that's a different story.

Quote from: element on May 07, 2018, 06:43:29 PM

Quote from: BowDown on May 07, 2018, 05:50:47 PM
I wouldn?t wanna have a bby with a man who doesn?t want to have one. I?d abort that shit so fast if there?s even a hint of unpleasantness tbh.

Yea, I agree with this bitch. I wish more nigresses would have this mindset tbh.

bxbxccccxccccccc

:ummwhat:

I have a question for Iman & Bow

Would y?all ever trap a man of great status

Absolutely.
:heyddy:

But I wouldn?t continue if he became angry with the pregnancy. Not trying to ruin someone?s life or end up dead.

:mmywheresddy:

Quote from: ur golden treasure. on May 07, 2018, 07:16:10 PM
i luv how yall exclude me from lady convos  :ummwhat:

i have a vagina thingy too etc

Are you t..

Quote from: ANIMMAI on May 07, 2018, 06:36:30 PM
do u live in a tyler perry play

skjndkdfddd

That sounded a bit too ghetto for Tyler.

Per' likes to give you middle class with a hint of niggatry.

Honestly if I could get pregnant I woulda trapped trade after he nutted in me so he could leave his girlfriends

ssssssssssss

yea ... this is the highest estrogen levels we've had in awhile, loving it

I wonder why we don't attract many lesbians here

Quote from: ur golden treasure. on May 07, 2018, 07:17:49 PM

Quote from: BowDown on May 07, 2018, 07:16:41 PM

Quote from: ur golden treasure. on May 07, 2018, 07:16:10 PM
i luv how yall exclude me from lady convos  :ummwhat:

i have a vagina thingy too etc

Are you t..

:woohoo:

nnbbbgggggggg

You nasty fuck. Be a lady sometimes. :uhh:

Quote from: BowDown on May 07, 2018, 07:16:41 PM

Quote from: ur golden treasure. on May 07, 2018, 07:16:10 PM
i luv how yall exclude me from lady convos  :ummwhat:

i have a vagina thingy too etc

Are you t..

This is sexual harassment.

Don't be problematic.

Quote from: Kaeli. on May 07, 2018, 07:11:32 PM
I have a question for Iman & Bow

Would y?all ever trap a man of great status

I couldn't do it tbh. I like my freedom and I would feel controlled a bit  :ohwow:

Boy dfsjjfjfjjfff

Quote from: SAINT BENTLEY. on May 07, 2018, 07:18:13 PM
ssssssssssss

yea ... this is the highest estrogen levels we've had in awhile, loving it

I wonder why we don't attract many lesbians here

what is Kaeli then

The woman in this article is stupid. Only dated a few months and already want a baby?

It?s so easy for a man to say go get an abortion. It?s cowardice. If you don?t want to have a child wear a condom. It?s really all that simple.

Pay that child support
Deal with it

I can't even get past "only dated a few months", like...     

:blink:

I see points on both sides, but it's hard to say yes because there are so many factors to take into consideration.

I mean if these gurs just up and go to the abortion clinic and not give a fuck about what the man says then I don't see the problem.

If a nigga don't want a kid and he let's you know that then you shouldn't have the baby expecting him to be supportive. And it isn't fair that he's financially obligated to support something he never wanted to begin with.

Quote from: M?n?jonc?. on May 08, 2018, 11:21:15 AM
It?s so easy for a man to say go get an abortion. It?s cowardice. If you don?t want to have a child wear a condom. It?s really all that simple.

s

so what about the women who choose abortion babe...

cowards huh?
(https://i.imgur.com/aSMhzKD.gif)

Ok but a woman can feel the same way. She also didn?t want a child..abortion is a big step tho. I?m sure most women will just go ahead with the pregnancy. Two people made that baby. If the man was raped then he doesn?t have to pay child support

Quote from: SAINT BENTLEY. on May 08, 2018, 11:42:32 AM

Quote from: M?n?jonc?. on May 08, 2018, 11:21:15 AM
It?s so easy for a man to say go get an abortion. It?s cowardice. If you don?t want to have a child wear a condom. It?s really all that simple.

s

so what about the women who choose abortion babe...

cowards huh?
(https://i.imgur.com/aSMhzKD.gif)

For a man it easy, for a woman it is painful..also emotionally

Well, you may force someone to take responsability for that child legally, but he will never care or give love, attention etc as needed.

Just don't bring more unhappy people to this world. We have enough mass shooters, suicidal people etc. Abort it as long as it's still a mass of cells.  (https://i.imgur.com/gtan5hE.png)

:woohoo:

Let me order my dildo real quick

Quote from: TheNextLew on May 09, 2018, 02:46:51 AM
Let me order my dildo real quick

:guys:

Lew, you the type to take the dildo out and set it on your night stand when you done.

I know that room be FUNKY! 

Quote from: YAH. on May 09, 2018, 02:48:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gtan5hE.png)

KNNBHhvbgghhjJJJJHHHHHHHHJHHHHJJJHHHGFGHJJHHHHHJ

I fucking hate y?all

:kii:

Quote from: YAH. on May 09, 2018, 02:49:47 AM

Quote from: XXX. on May 09, 2018, 02:48:50 AM

Quote from: YAH. on May 09, 2018, 02:48:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gtan5hE.png)

KNNBHhvbgghhjJJJJHHHHHHHHJHHHHJJJHHHGFGHJJHHHHHJ

I fucking hate y?all

:kii:

GGHHJHHHJJHHHJJHHJJJHHJJJ

:plzstop: :plzstop:

I?m really crying!

Why did I just notice the other smiley in the bed!

:plzstop:

Quote from: XXX. on May 09, 2018, 02:48:21 AM
Lew, you the type to take the dildo out and set it on your night stand when you done.

I know that room be FUNKY!

what the fuck.

Quote from: XXX. on May 09, 2018, 02:51:00 AM

Quote from: YAH. on May 09, 2018, 02:49:47 AM

Quote from: XXX. on May 09, 2018, 02:48:50 AM

Quote from: YAH. on May 09, 2018, 02:48:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gtan5hE.png)

KNNBHhvbgghhjJJJJHHHHHHHHJHHHHJJJHHHGFGHJJHHHHHJ

I fucking hate y?all

:kii:

GGHHJHHHJJHHHJJHHJJJHHJJJ

:plzstop: :plzstop:

I?m really crying!

Why did I just notice the other smiley in the bed!

:plzstop:

:plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop:

Quote from: XXX. on May 09, 2018, 02:48:21 AM
Lew, you the type to take the dildo out and set it on your night stand when you done.

I know that room be FUNKY!

I use a condom on it lol

The room is fine

Quote from: TheNextLew on May 09, 2018, 03:16:39 AM

Quote from: XXX. on May 09, 2018, 02:48:21 AM
Lew, you the type to take the dildo out and set it on your night stand when you done.

I know that room be FUNKY!

I use a condom on it lol

The room is fine

:omf:

Gather me!

Quote from: Andrais. on May 08, 2018, 11:38:26 AM
I mean if these gurs just up and go to the abortion clinic and not give a fuck about what the man says then I don't see the problem.

If a nigga don't want a kid and he let's you know that then you shouldn't have the baby expecting him to be supportive. And it isn't fair that he's financially obligated to support something he never wanted to begin with.

Quote from: golden touch. on May 08, 2018, 11:43:48 AM

Quote from: Andrais. on May 08, 2018, 11:38:26 AM
I mean if these gurs just up and go to the abortion clinic and not give a fuck about what the man says then I don't see the problem.

If a nigga don't want a kid and he let's you know that then you shouldn't have the baby expecting him to be supportive. And it isn't fair that he's financially obligated to support something he never wanted to begin with.

n

yea i said it!

shut up hun

Wanna get into it

These dumb girls

No way would I try to trap a broke nigga

What?s the point?  :uhh:

Go for a high profile married man who was no choice but to pay up out of fear of what it could do to his career and family

:oof:

Who said anything about trapping a broke nigga

In general.

Close this

It always saddens me how people dump their own flesh and blood like a piece of gum stuck on their shoes. I just don't get it and never will.

Second, you gorls talking about abortions like a trip to the dentist need to educate yourselves on what it entails. They basically put a blender up your vagina blend up your baby into pieces in the womb and then let it dribble out of your vagina bit by bit. A lot of women are not able to have children or struggle a great deal with lots of miscarriages after an abortion because this procedure is not as simple and easy as the media makes you believe it is.