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Lounge => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lazarus on May 09, 2018, 06:00:14 PM

Title: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Lazarus on May 09, 2018, 06:00:14 PM
Quote
Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Multiple Times

Chris Brown has been accused of co-conspiring, aiding and abetting in a 2017 sexual assault that took place during a party at his house in a new lawsuit filed Wednesday (May 9) by attorney Gloria Allred on behalf of her client, a woman who will be known as Jane Doe.

During a press conference Wednesday afternoon, Allred described the incidents leading up to the alleged assault but would not go into detail about the specific allegations, instead referring reporters to the lawsuit due to the sensitive nature of the claims. The famed women's rights attorney with more than 40 years of professional experience did, however, offer a warning to television stations that she was unsure whether details such as those included in the suit could be aired on television.

"This is one of the most horrific sexual assault cases that I have ever seen," she said. "And our client, Jane Doe, has been severely traumatized by what she was forced to suffer."

According to the lawsuit, a copy of which was reviewed by Billboard, Doe had attended a concert at 1 Oak in West Hollywood, where she was invited to attend an after party at a recording studio where Brown and rapper Young Lo -- whose real name is Lowell Grissom, Jr. -- were working. When she arrived there, her phone was allegedly taken from her because Brown did not want any phones in the studio. Even when Doe wanted to leave, she claims her phone was not returned and she was then coerced into going to Brown's house in order to retrieve her phone.

While at Brown's house, the plaintiff claims alcohol and illicit drugs that she believed include cocaine, molly and marijuana were provided to guests. She also says Brown handed each female guest, including herself, a pill filled with white powder and instructed them to take it to have a "good time." Doe did not take her pill and instead sought to isolate herself in hopes she would be left alone.

The plaintiff also claims she saw Brown and Grissom in possession of multiple guns in the house and was generally intimidated by the aggressive behavior in the house.

Meanwhile, according to the filing, Doe's mother -- with whom she is usually in close contact -- became worried because she had not heard from her daughter and used an app to track the phone's location to Brown's house. Using that information, she called the police asking they go search for her daughter. The police did show up, but Brown refused to open the gate and denied them entry to his property.

The police left and the party continued, while Doe claims Grissom was "evasive" and would not return her phone. From there, things took a turn for the worse.

The plaintiff alleges that Brown, Grissom, a female guest referred to as Doe X -- who is believed to be friends with Brown and Grissom and to have toured with them -- and others planned to use drugs, alcohol and intimidation to "coerce and force unwilling female guests to perform sexual acts for Defendants and others." They allegedly lured the female guests into a bedroom and then falsely imprisoned those unwilling to voluntarily engage in sexual activity by going so far as to barricade the door and then further "coerce, intimidate and sexually harass the unwilling female guests to commit sexual acts" on the defendants and others.

The events that then transpired, according to the lawsuit, are true to Allred's warning. Many women were brought into a room with four beds, while Brown instructed Grissom to push a couch in front of a door and turned on loud music and pornography to allegedly "cover up the sounds of any resistance" and "create a hyper-sexualized environment in the sealed bedroom." While some women began to engage in sexual activity with Grissom and Brown, the plaintiff refused to undress and made it clear she was not interested in participating. Still, she claims she was forced to perform oral sex on Grissom and Doe X in the room and then was later raped twice by Grissom in other rooms around the property before she was allowed to leave.

Doe went to a rape treatment center and to the police where she reported the events. According to Allred, she has participated in a criminal investigation that is still open. She is seeking general and punitive damages according to proof at trial.

Brown, Grissom, Doe X and other unnamed defendants are accused of sexual battery, gender violence, hate violence, assault, interference with exercise of civil rights, intentional infliction of emotional distress and more.

Brown, specifically, is accused of negligence of premises liability as the owner or controller of the property.

"Jane Doe has been severely traumatized by what she was forced to suffer," said Allred at the press conference. "She filed this lawsuit because she wants justice for herself, but she also wants to warn other young women about the potential danger to themselves if they have their phone taken away and if they go to Chris Brown's house.

"She does not want any other young woman to endure the violent sexual assaults that she was forced to endure in an environment of guns and drugs."

Brown's rep did not return a request for comment.
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Barbie Dangerous on May 09, 2018, 06:01:01 PM
 :omgwatshappening:
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Barbie Dangerous on May 09, 2018, 06:02:28 PM
Quotealcohol and illicit drugs that she believed include cocaine, molly and marijuana were provided to guests

:wellheythere:
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: CHOKE on May 09, 2018, 06:03:07 PM
Can always count on king to steal a headline

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/2130709930f3db0b543973a3eeabb02e/tenor.gif?itemid=5666619)
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: b7 on May 09, 2018, 06:05:39 PM
I know Keke Palmer went through this at Trey Songz? party but i don?t wanna believe this

And isn?t it Chris? birthday? smh or i think it was a few days ago. sad
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Purple Moon on May 09, 2018, 06:07:59 PM
why isnt it hard to believe this

chris boy...
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: BAPHOMET. on May 09, 2018, 06:09:04 PM
Fake news.
V
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Buy The Stars✨ on May 09, 2018, 06:10:02 PM
Can we lock him up please
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Just Dropped In To See What Condition My Condition Was In on May 09, 2018, 06:16:17 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Gekkouga on May 09, 2018, 06:17:32 PM
Quote from: Happily Unhappy on May 09, 2018, 06:16:17 PM
Wow.

r u to...
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 09, 2018, 06:21:20 PM
Bxbdbdd

So one of Chris friends raped her but Chris is the one whose name is gonna be plastered everywhere cause he?s famous and it was his party

Wtf
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: RAY7 on May 09, 2018, 06:23:42 PM
Not Chris giving girls Bill Cosby pills
nigga :guys:
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: #Mu7 on May 09, 2018, 06:25:06 PM
its a bloom case and like all of them in recent years it too will be dismissed.
people need to leave chris brown the fuck alone. he has made it to 30 and i'm sure is tired of all the foolishness.  he seems to be an amazing dad and i hope as the years continue will continue to move his life in a more mature direction.
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: RAY7 on May 09, 2018, 06:26:24 PM
I don?t believe this though
all of this because someone took her phone while at the studio
and she never once tried to leave?
Plz
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: 4 fucking k on May 09, 2018, 06:26:37 PM
The way the media is attacking the innocent black kings
I'm sick!
(https://i.imgur.com/z3xf3DM.gif)
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 09, 2018, 06:26:41 PM
Girl I'm crying the way this is worded is to specifically make Chris look like the bad guy.

They put Chris name here to make you think he is accused of something violent

QuoteBrown, Grissom, Doe X and other unnamed defendants are accused of sexual battery, gender violence, hate violence, assault, interference with exercise of civil rights, intentional infliction of emotional distress and more.

Only to have the next sentence say he's just accused of throwing the party and not controlling his guests.

QuoteBrown, specifically, is accused of negligence of premises liability as the owner or controller of the property.
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Kurama on May 09, 2018, 06:28:00 PM
Quote from: Choke on May 09, 2018, 06:03:07 PM
Can always count on king to steal a headline

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/2130709930f3db0b543973a3eeabb02e/tenor.gif?itemid=5666619)

Seems his friends like to steal something else
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Kurama on May 09, 2018, 06:28:37 PM
But I dont agree with this and its a obvious ploy to attack this crackhead again
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: BAPHOMET. on May 09, 2018, 06:29:39 PM
Quote from: element on May 09, 2018, 06:26:37 PM
The way the media is attacking the innocent black kings
I'm sick!
(https://i.imgur.com/z3xf3DM.gif)
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: BAPHOMET. on May 09, 2018, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: Choke on May 09, 2018, 06:03:07 PM
Can always count on king to steal a headline

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/2130709930f3db0b543973a3eeabb02e/tenor.gif?itemid=5666619)
the Bey mess was on CNN. babe
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Buy The Stars✨ on May 09, 2018, 06:33:19 PM
This went on at his party he allowed it and he seems like the type to do a gang bang mess out on a passed out chick lock him up
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Admin on May 09, 2018, 06:33:52 PM
Quote from: Nick'Challa on May 09, 2018, 06:10:02 PM
Can we lock him up please
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: CHOKE on May 09, 2018, 06:35:55 PM
Quote from: Baph Savali. on May 09, 2018, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: Choke on May 09, 2018, 06:03:07 PM
Can always count on king to steal a headline

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/2130709930f3db0b543973a3eeabb02e/tenor.gif?itemid=5666619)
the Bey mess was on CNN. babe

This will be everywhere soon

:wellheythere:
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: CHOKE on May 09, 2018, 06:40:44 PM
QuoteInside the Horrifying Sexual-Assault Case Involving Chris Brown

(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1525904045/180509-zimmerman--chris-brown-lede-2_rrgwnv)

QuoteOn Wednesday, Gloria Allred filed a lawsuit against singer Chris Brown and his friend Lowell Grissom Jr., aka ?Young Lo,? on behalf of a Jane Doe. The suit alleges that, on the night of February 23, 2017, Doe was forced to go to Chris Brown?s residence, where she was ?repeatedly sexually assaulted while falsely imprisoned in one of the bedrooms of Brown?s house.?



Not repeatedly

This poor girl

(https://media.tenor.com/images/d9fb8caa99ea016f5bc4df4921943e21/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: yummy on May 09, 2018, 06:42:30 PM
Gloria and her daughter are such ambulance chasers :dead:
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 09, 2018, 06:44:14 PM
Quote from: Choke on May 09, 2018, 06:40:44 PM
QuoteInside the Horrifying Sexual-Assault Case Involving Chris Brown

(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1525904045/180509-zimmerman--chris-brown-lede-2_rrgwnv)

QuoteOn Wednesday, Gloria Allred filed a lawsuit against singer Chris Brown and his friend Lowell Grissom Jr., aka ?Young Lo,? on behalf of a Jane Doe. The suit alleges that, on the night of February 23, 2017, Doe was forced to go to Chris Brown?s residence, where she was ?repeatedly sexually assaulted while falsely imprisoned in one of the bedrooms of Brown?s house.?



Not repeatedly

This poor girl

(https://media.tenor.com/images/d9fb8caa99ea016f5bc4df4921943e21/tenor.gif)

akjnsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

They are just using Chris name for publicity

He ain't even the one accused

I'm crying
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Kaeli. on May 09, 2018, 06:48:24 PM
Chris is a lot of things but idk if sexual deviant is one of those
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Kalifornia. on May 09, 2018, 06:49:21 PM
Is the girl White?
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Buy The Stars✨ on May 09, 2018, 06:59:14 PM
Quote from: StarKitty on May 09, 2018, 06:49:21 PM
Is the girl White?


White and trans I heard
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: BigDawg on May 09, 2018, 07:03:50 PM
Lol these groupies are a mess.
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 09, 2018, 07:13:58 PM
This the nigga

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdENSO1H9gY/?taken-by=everybodyknowslo
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Vonc2002 on May 09, 2018, 07:16:24 PM
Please let this be it
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Annie on May 10, 2018, 03:33:40 AM
Quote from: squid on May 09, 2018, 06:33:52 PM
Quote from: Nick'Challa on May 09, 2018, 06:10:02 PM
Can we lock him up please
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Ultra goodbye ciao cya gorl on May 10, 2018, 03:35:09 AM
im not b'lievin' this

stop tryna this boy down alrdy!
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: GRAND ETERNAL SUPREME on May 10, 2018, 04:13:09 AM
Isn't this like the second time he got accused for something his friends did

Drop them all boy
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: MelMel on May 10, 2018, 04:30:14 AM
Quote from: Sinyonc? on May 09, 2018, 07:13:58 PM
This the nigga

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdENSO1H9gY/?taken-by=everybodyknowslo
(https://i.imgur.com/rETXA09.png)
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Opposites Attract. on May 10, 2018, 04:33:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z3xf3DM.gif)
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: CHOKE on May 10, 2018, 05:03:04 AM
QuoteChris Brown accused of trapping woman during nightmare orgy at LA mansion

(https://images.tmz.com/2018/03/28/0328-chris-brown-choking-choke-photos-launch-3.jpg)

QuoteAn unidentified woman claims singer Chris Brown trapped her in a bedroom of his Los Angeles mansion during a drug-fueled orgy last year ? and that one of his friends repeatedly raped her.

QuoteIn a sexual battery and gender violence lawsuit filed Wednesday, the woman claims Brown orchestrated the horrific assault when he ordered someone to "push a couch in front of the bedroom door" to block it and began playing deafening music and pornography "to create a hyper-sexualized environment in the sealed bedroom."

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/chris-brown-trapped-woman-nightmare-orgy-la-home-suit-article-1.3980714%3foutputType=amp

The story keeps getting worse and worse

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/788e989fdeff962e5de898d661f5f2df/tumblr_oabl4uE0fJ1qipjsvo2_250.gif)
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: GRAND ETERNAL SUPREME on May 10, 2018, 05:10:09 AM
XXXXXCCCCCCCCC
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 10, 2018, 05:12:09 AM
They are lying
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: CHOKE on May 10, 2018, 05:13:44 AM
The way she describes using the couch to block her escape and blasting the music to drown out her screams for help

This is horrific

Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 10, 2018, 05:26:01 AM
That didn't happened

I was there
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: FlowerBomb on May 10, 2018, 05:53:07 AM
Ew not hosting Sex parties
Hollywood is nasty :dead:
I hope this smear campaign is successful
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Nine on May 10, 2018, 07:52:03 AM
Quote from: Annie on May 10, 2018, 03:33:40 AM
Quote from: squid on May 09, 2018, 06:33:52 PM
Quote from: Nick'Challa on May 09, 2018, 06:10:02 PM
Can we lock him up please
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: LOONA. on May 10, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
Hmmmm

I feel like it could be real or fake.

The mess is too descriptive to be fake, but at the same time if this nigga was throwing sex parties I'm sure the tea would've been came out.   

Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: RAY7 on May 10, 2018, 10:18:53 AM
I think it happened but I don?t think she was raped
she probably got pissed about something and is doing this to be evil
because reading this there are multiple times she chose to move forward with the situation when she could?ve left
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: KING BENTLEY. on May 10, 2018, 10:19:41 AM
ssssssss'

welp ... the sad thing is ... this is prolly true

but ... I still believe these women are choosing to go into these toxic relationships .... for the rewards. That's self-negligence.

I'm sorry ... the feminista movement needs to end or revamp themselves

one minute yawl want equal rights and treatment.... then the next we're supposed to believe you're not a strong enough species to hang up the phone when they ask you to come over to a house full of niggas? :uhh:

which one is it women? .... that's why cause bandwagoners hurt the objective. the #MeToo movement is completely muddled now :dead:
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: BAPHOMET. on May 10, 2018, 10:20:29 AM
The thought of Chris and a sex party is kinda hot.
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: KING BENTLEY. on May 10, 2018, 10:21:36 AM
Quote from: AYR on May 10, 2018, 10:18:53 AM
I think it happened but I don?t think she was raped
she probably got pissed about something and is doing this to be evil
because reading this there are multiple times she chose to move forward with the situation when she could?ve left
!!!!!!!!!

once they opened up the floodgates .... the groupies/porn stars/ escorts/insta thots are having a damn field day

and men are idiots ... they don't know when they're getting played, especially when they want booty :dead:
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: LOONA. on May 10, 2018, 10:22:56 AM
Quote from: Baph Savali. on May 10, 2018, 10:20:29 AM
The thought of Chris and a sex party is kinda hot.

As disgusting as Chris is...yes tbh.

I'd snort a line off his dick.     

Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 10, 2018, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: Andrais. on May 10, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
Hmmmm

I feel like it could be real or fake.

The mess is too descriptive to be fake, but at the same time if this nigga was throwing sex parties I'm sure the tea would've been came out.   


D

U think?

I feel like hollywood is filled with sex parties. If regular people can get away with it, im sure celebrities can
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 10, 2018, 10:24:29 AM
Also close this fucking thread
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: BAPHOMET. on May 10, 2018, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: Andrais. on May 10, 2018, 10:22:56 AM
Quote from: Baph Savali. on May 10, 2018, 10:20:29 AM
The thought of Chris and a sex party is kinda hot.

As disgusting as Chris is...yes tbh.

I'd snort a line off his dick.     


:oof:
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: RAY7 on May 10, 2018, 10:29:35 AM
So instead of leaving, you stay there and just want to be left alone?
In someone else?s house?
QuoteBrown handed each female guest, including herself, a pill filled with white powder and instructed them to take it to have a "good time." Doe did not take her pill and instead sought to isolate herself in hopes she would be left alone.
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: XXX. on May 10, 2018, 11:11:00 AM
What's more startling to me is how much I really don't even give a fuck about Chris anymore.  Like, I totally see why they say indifference is worse than hating or disliking.
Title: Re: Chris Brown Accused in New Lawsuit of Hosting Sex Party Where Woman Was Raped Mu
Post by: Sinpool on May 10, 2018, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: XXX. on May 10, 2018, 11:11:00 AM
What's more startling to me is how much I really don't even give a fuck about Chris anymore.  Like, I totally see why they say indifference is worse than hating or disliking.

Bdbbdndd

Lowkey I do find myself forcing myself to defend him now just for old times sake.

Still would let him pump me with seed, but don?t really check for him anymore, just randlmly stumble.