Just listening to her sound and her old stuff
she's phenomenal
it's funny how someone behind the scenes had so much influence, but like Martha Wash, she was never given just dues for it
all signature 90's background stem from sis :dead:
she's surely the biggest
none of the girls wanted to go toe to toe vocally with Kelly back then, except Whit :dead:
Quote from: MypuzzystanK on September 29, 2015, 10:33:22 PM
she's surely the biggest
omfg u are so hilarious. didn't see that one coming
Kelly's voice is groundbreaking. :stressed:
GODly definitely can outsing most gorls.
she even tossed whit and mimi their wigs
sorry, but I'm stanning for this voice tonight... like... it's kinda unREAL :uhh: :uhh:
like... nobody can actually BOOK Kelly vocally, like... um... Kelly is definitely in the top 5 females of all time dammit
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:35:58 PM
Quote from: MypuzzystanK on September 29, 2015, 10:33:22 PM
she's surely the biggest
omfg u are so hilarious. didn't see that one coming
i wasn't laughing or being funny hun
but ha!
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
GODly definitely can outsing most gorls.
she even tossed whit and mimi their wigs
Oh gor'
no :overit:
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
GODly definitely can outsing most gorls.
she even tossed whit and mimi their wigs
!
The very first time I heard this, I went fucking crazy. :loose2when:
Sis really did the most DAMAGE on this, vocally
Her weight held back her career. She's probably the fattest R&B girl to ever get a record deal.
Quote from: Baphomet. on September 29, 2015, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
GODly definitely can outsing most gorls.
she even tossed whit and mimi their wigs
Oh gor'
no :overit:
Name one thing Whitney could do that GODly couldn't.
DOn't worry, I will WAIT :supluv:
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
yea neither me
My fav Kelly song :'( brings back memories
these VOCALS >
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
GODly definitely can outsing most gorls.
she even tossed whit and mimi their wigs
!
The very first time I heard this, I went fucking crazy. :loose2when:
Sis really did the most DAMAGE on this, vocally
I remember her saying Whitney got upset with her cuz she felt like she was holding back. She wanted her to SANG. Nippy really pushed the girls. Ghan said she used to shake her tummy and tell her to sing from within. How she hated when she gave that baby girly rasp :stressed:
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
:dead:
I already know you're not gonna like this but.. :plzstop:
Kelly and R. Kelly were very similar in the late 90's/00's
their writing style and vocals when it came to RnB
I think she kinda influenced the girls like he influenced the guys
Quote from: Marilyn on September 29, 2015, 10:41:31 PM
Her weight held back her career. She's probably the fattest R&B girl to ever get a record deal.
I kinda agree, but...
I think her weight both hurt and helped her in a way.
At first people was shocked when she came on stage..like wtf :udontlookok:
but then they kinda fell in love with the idea that such a big woman, with such a big voice, was making strides and slaying the scene.
when she lost all that weight it really did nothing significant for her career really.
One thing I will say, is that she's always been a BEAUTIFUL big black woman.
she gives u face deluxe.
(http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Kelly+Price+BET+Celebration+Gospel+Arrivals+1CrNCIgh2PRl.jpg)
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:35:58 PM
Quote from: MypuzzystanK on September 29, 2015, 10:33:22 PM
she's surely the biggest
omfg u are so hilarious. didn't see that one coming
Hope you see this fucking BOOT on your adamsapple
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:42:01 PM
Quote from: Baphomet. on September 29, 2015, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
GODly definitely can outsing most gorls.
she even tossed whit and mimi their wigs
Oh gor'
no :overit:
Name one thing Whitney could do that GODly couldn't.
[youtube autoplay=1 start=160]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-lKQUAbDw[/youtube]
Luv Kelly to death tho :overit:
Whitney could fucking never.
[youtube autoplay=1 start=10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dybIBzdK0kc[/youtube]
please.
now the thread is gonna compare vocals now lol
Whitney >< Kelly
I'm sor', but Kel' dragged Whit' on "Heartbreak Hotel"
Kelly can definitely sang her ass off, but she wasn't seeing Whitney in her prime. She did sing more from the gut whereas it just seemed absolutely effortless coming from Whit.
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:46:27 PM
Quote from: Marilyn on September 29, 2015, 10:41:31 PM
Her weight held back her career. She's probably the fattest R&B girl to ever get a record deal.
I kinda agree, but...
I think her weight both hurt and helped her in a way.
At first people was shocked when she came on stage..like wtf :udontlookok:
but then they kinda fell in love with the idea that such a big woman, with such a big voice, was making strides and slaying the scene.
when she lost all that weight it really did nothing significant for her career really.
One thing I will say, is that she's always been a BEAUTIFUL big black woman.
she gives u face deluxe.
(http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Kelly+Price+BET+Celebration+Gospel+Arrivals+1CrNCIgh2PRl.jpg)
I agree. I was looking forward to her show Too Fat for Fame but I guess it never materialized.
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 10:51:35 PM
Whitney >< Kelly
I'm sor', but Kel' dragged Whit' on "Heartbreak Hotel"
I think some people are so used to praising Whitney's vocal prowess, but forget that she was so revered and acclaimed because not only did she possess the vocal chops, she looked like a model on top of that. So when you think of "Whitney" , you think no one else could do it
But vocally, GODly could and has given it to Whitney.
Kelly's voice is amazing :ohwow: damn sing bih
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 10:51:35 PM
Whitney >< Kelly
I'm sor', but Kel' dragged Whit' on "Heartbreak Hotel"
I can sorta agree with this. Not drag, but she gave the best vocal in that song.
You think cuz she could or Whitney was trying to showcase the younger girls?
She dragged them in those live performances though. Faith and Whitney were a mess.
Whit had a pretty voice. Idk but I feel like she's overrated. Don't drag me guys.
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:53:34 PM
Kelly's voice is amazing :ohwow: damn sing bih
:stressed:
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:55:53 PM
Whit had a pretty voice. Idk but I feel like she's overrated. Don't drag me guys.
!!!!!!!!
Its the combination of her voice and her looks that propelled her so high. She was looking just as good as those gorls that were on the scene, but vocally was simply blowing them out of the water.
And no shade, but Kelly got where she got off of her vocals alone. Not having a famous godmother.
Am mean.... Sis was kinda GODLY when it came to vocals.
These crystal clear notes...
Acapellla
:loose2when:
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:55:53 PM
Whit had a pretty voice. Idk but I feel like she's overrated. Don't drag me guys.
It was her tone that sent the gorls into a frenzy. That, and the fact she could hold her notes so effortlessly(via. "IWALY")
Quote from: Baphomet. on September 29, 2015, 10:57:46 PM
Am mean.... Sis was kinda GODLY when it came to vocals.
These crystal clear notes...
Acapellla
:loose2when:
I listen to this version a lot. Those vocal chords just soared. I always get a little emotional during that intro. So angelic. :'(
Kelly is dope
but she only "dragged" Whitney on Heartbreak Hotel
because it was 98 and Whit had been smoking cigs and crack over 10 years
80s Whitney>>>>>
Quote from: NexTae on September 29, 2015, 10:53:44 PM
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 10:51:35 PM
Whitney >< Kelly
I'm sor', but Kel' dragged Whit' on "Heartbreak Hotel"
I can sorta agree with this. Not drag, but she gave the best vocal in that song.
The way she completely overshadowed Faith tho :plzstop: :plzstop: and I love Faith but... Kelly goes in
Quote from: Hugo on September 29, 2015, 10:54:31 PM
You think cuz she could or Whitney was trying to showcase the younger girls?
ssss
Whit definitely knew Kelly could book
they all slayed Heartbreak Hotel, but it was clear Kelly was superior :dead:
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:56:39 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:53:34 PM
Kelly's voice is amazing :ohwow: damn sing bih
:stressed:
this is genius :plzstop:
I love their chemistry :stressed: :loose2when:
Never got into kelly vocally like that. Lemme see.
This bitch SAT there and gave a casual vocal lashing with nothing but voice. I'm sorry but no one was seeing her at all!
no
Quote from: Baphomet. on September 29, 2015, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: NexTae on September 29, 2015, 11:03:45 PM
:stressed:
Prime Whit >
:stressed: I have chills
I just don't understand how her voice got completely shot from this. It should've been something left. :'(
she was out there killing actual OPERA singers
Kelly is great but...
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:57:28 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:55:53 PM
Whit had a pretty voice. Idk but I feel like she's overrated. Don't drag me guys.
!!!!!!!!
Its the combination of her voice and her looks that propelled her so high. She was looking just as good as those gorls that were on the scene, but vocally was simply blowing them out of the water.
And no shade, but Kelly got where she got off of her vocals alone. Not having a famous godmother.
!!!! ppl love to rave about Whit's vocals but she was really a marketer's and label's dream. She had the looks and voice but at the same time she was marketable as a brand more than anything. A very pop tone too.
Kelly had a nice run and I think it speaks volumes that a woman her size (no shade luv) was able to book award show performances and have hits and work with big name artists. Her voice did that and I know for a fact that wouldn't happen today :plzstop:
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
Quote from: NexTae on September 29, 2015, 10:52:34 PM
Kelly can definitely sang her ass off, but she wasn't seeing Whitney in her prime. She did sing more from the gut whereas it just seemed absolutely effortless coming from Whit.
these fucking tears
:plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop:
but that explains a lot, such a powerful and FULL vocalist
One thing for sure is... I think it was Kelly's weight that held her back from her dues
in all the lists of all time female voices, Mariah and Mary make it from that era, but no Kelly, and I KNOW Kelly would give them both the business :dead:
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
:dead:
I already know you're not gonna like this but.. :plzstop:
Kelly and R. Kelly were very similar in the late 90's/00's
their writing style and vocals when it came to RnB
I think she kinda influenced the girls like he influenced the guys
Bent :plzstop:
No!
If anything she was heavily influenced by Bert
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
:dead:
I already know you're not gonna like this but.. :plzstop:
Kelly and R. Kelly were very similar in the late 90's/00's
their writing style and vocals when it came to RnB
I think she kinda influenced the girls like he influenced the guys
Bent :plzstop:
No!
If anything she was heavily influenced by Bert
!!!!! :kii:
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
!!!
I bet Kelly was inspired by her.
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 10:51:35 PM
Whitney >< Kelly
I'm sor', but Kel' dragged Whit' on "Heartbreak Hotel"
R u fucking deaf :plzstop:
There was no lashing on that record
It was an even vocal mess
Faith slayed the backs and arrangement
Whit slayed the leads
And Kelly slayed the adlibs
There was no DRAGGING :plzstop:
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:12:40 PM
One thing for sure is... I think it was Kelly's weight that held her back from her dues
in all the lists of all time female voices, Mariah and Mary make it from that era, but no Kelly, and I KNOW Kelly would give them both the business :dead:
jjjjjjj @ Mary. She's disgusting vocally :plzstop:
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
Now this is all facts!! ppl luv to sleep on Faith's influence but she influenced A LOT of these R&B artists. Her ear :loose2when:
I mean she wrote whole songs by ha self ugh :loose2when:
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
:dead:
I already know you're not gonna like this but.. :plzstop:
Kelly and R. Kelly were very similar in the late 90's/00's
their writing style and vocals when it came to RnB
I think she kinda influenced the girls like he influenced the guys
Bent :plzstop:
No!
If anything she was heavily influenced by Bert
njniuhnj
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
yeah I'd say Faith before Kelly tbh
Quote from: NexTae on September 29, 2015, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
!!!
I bet Kelly was inspired by her.
Faith influenced all of them tbqfh. Kelly, Mary, etc.
I never realized that Kelly and R. Kelly are indeed similar in their writing styles. They told fucking stories. Kelly's debut album>>>>
I actually can't think of a female who did that before her so I'll give her that.
Quote from: NexTae on September 29, 2015, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
!!!
I bet Kelly was inspired by her.
!!!
She had to have been :plzstop:
The vocal styling and arrangements was all over "'mirror mirror"
:plzstop:
Toni is a strong candidate also.
;
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
Now this is all facts!! ppl luv to sleep on Faith's influence but she influenced A LOT of these R&B artists. Her ear :loose2when:
I mean she wrote whole songs by ha self ugh :loose2when:
!!!!
She really deserves a lot of credit for her arrangements. Till this day she still slays them.
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
Now this is all facts!! ppl luv to sleep on Faith's influence but she influenced A LOT of these R&B artists. Her ear :loose2when:
I mean she wrote whole songs by ha self ugh :loose2when:
!!!!!!!!!!!
When I hear the praise that Mary gets it makes my skin boil
Faith helped mold Mary's sound and got all the credit
All the work that faith did in the 90s..
And ch.. Some of her mess went uncredited to her looking out for friends and shit
She even taught Missy how to be a better composer, writer and arranger :plzstop:
Kelly can blow but she doesn't have ANY influence what so ever
Quote from: Branzbae on September 29, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
:dead:
I already know you're not gonna like this but.. :plzstop:
Kelly and R. Kelly were very similar in the late 90's/00's
their writing style and vocals when it came to RnB
I think she kinda influenced the girls like he influenced the guys
Bent :plzstop:
No!
If anything she was heavily influenced by Bert
njniuhnj
What :uhh:
King did influence her first 2 Albers
ssss
wait ... who came out first?
I mean I know they were both behind the scenes before breaking out
but I mean... it's a toss up... Kelly has the slight edge over Faith tho... she'll take any chicks mic and you just... jus wanna throw a shoe at Kelly tbh
[youtube start=300]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve1KeU7CWCQ[/youtube]
Quote from: NexTae on September 29, 2015, 11:16:45 PM
I never realized that Kelly and R. Kelly are indeed similar in their writing styles. They told fucking stories. Kelly's debut album>>>>
I actually can't think of a female who did that before her so I'll give her that.
No shade but Bert mentored her
So that doesn't count
She honestly didn't do anything first ... She can sang most of the girls under the table but she wasnt musically ahead of the girls or in anyway influential
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: Branzbae on September 29, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
:dead:
I already know you're not gonna like this but.. :plzstop:
Kelly and R. Kelly were very similar in the late 90's/00's
their writing style and vocals when it came to RnB
I think she kinda influenced the girls like he influenced the guys
Bent :plzstop:
No!
If anything she was heavily influenced by Bert
njniuhnj
What :uhh:
King did influence her first 2 Albers
agreed
Im laughing at Hoopty
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:21:29 PM
ssss
wait ... who came out first?
I mean I know they were both behind the scenes before breaking out
but I mean... it's a toss up... Kelly has the slight edge over Faith tho... she'll take any chicks mic and you just... jus wanna throw a shoe at Kelly tbh
[youtube start=300]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve1KeU7CWCQ[/youtube]
I guess it's just a matter of preference and I can see why someone would prefer Kelly's powerhouse mess to Faiths bedtime dreamy raspy heavenly voice ..
Preference for sure ..
Kelly Def had the bigger voice
But faith had the better ear and colors to her voice
Quote from: Branzbae on September 29, 2015, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: Branzbae on September 29, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
:dead:
I already know you're not gonna like this but.. :plzstop:
Kelly and R. Kelly were very similar in the late 90's/00's
their writing style and vocals when it came to RnB
I think she kinda influenced the girls like he influenced the guys
Bent :plzstop:
No!
If anything she was heavily influenced by Bert
njniuhnj
What :uhh:
King did influence her first 2 Albers
agreed
Im laughing at Hoopty
s can you be nice to me? :supluv:
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Branzbae on September 29, 2015, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: Branzbae on September 29, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:39:35 PM
her voice is great but I'm not seeing this supposed influence :usuresis:
:dead:
I already know you're not gonna like this but.. :plzstop:
Kelly and R. Kelly were very similar in the late 90's/00's
their writing style and vocals when it came to RnB
I think she kinda influenced the girls like he influenced the guys
Bent :plzstop:
No!
If anything she was heavily influenced by Bert
njniuhnj
What :uhh:
King did influence her first 2 Albers
agreed
Im laughing at Hoopty
s can you be nice to me? :supluv:
only in this thread
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:23:39 PM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:21:29 PM
ssss
wait ... who came out first?
I mean I know they were both behind the scenes before breaking out
but I mean... it's a toss up... Kelly has the slight edge over Faith tho... she'll take any chicks mic and you just... jus wanna throw a shoe at Kelly tbh
[youtube start=300]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve1KeU7CWCQ[/youtube]
I guess it's just a matter of preference and I can see why someone would prefer Kelly's powerhouse mess to Faiths bedtime dreamy raspy heavenly voice ..
Preference for sure ..
Kelly Def had the bigger voice
But faith had the better ear and colors to her voice
I like how you put this. Faith's ear is still so good.
Did you get into Incomporable Glock?
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
Now this is all facts!! ppl luv to sleep on Faith's influence but she influenced A LOT of these R&B artists. Her ear :loose2when:
I mean she wrote whole songs by ha self ugh :loose2when:
!!!!!!!!!!!
When I hear the praise that Mary gets it makes my skin boil
Faith helped mold Mary's sound and got all the credit
All the work that faith did in the 90s..
And ch.. Some of her mess went uncredited to her looking out for friends and shit
She even taught Missy how to be a better composer, writer and arranger :plzstop:
Kelly can blow but she doesn't have ANY influence what so ever
!
I'm sor' but I wish she wasn't so drugged up in the 90's :plzstop: she could've done so much more as far as creating an empire and brand. I think she got kind of lazy. :stressed: maybe discouraged when Big passed.
Tae..
:bvy:
I really don't use that album
The cheap ass production and I hate the person who mixed it and mastered it
Kelly is really a fearless singer tho
she's sang live with Deborah, Tamia, Faith, Whit
and tbh.... she's kinda booked them all a bit
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 11:30:21 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:11:56 PM
Fucking please
Faith's influence and arrangements >>>>
Now this is all facts!! ppl luv to sleep on Faith's influence but she influenced A LOT of these R&B artists. Her ear :loose2when:
I mean she wrote whole songs by ha self ugh :loose2when:
!!!!!!!!!!!
When I hear the praise that Mary gets it makes my skin boil
Faith helped mold Mary's sound and got all the credit
All the work that faith did in the 90s..
And ch.. Some of her mess went uncredited to her looking out for friends and shit
She even taught Missy how to be a better composer, writer and arranger :plzstop:
Kelly can blow but she doesn't have ANY influence what so ever
!
I'm sor' but I wish she wasn't so drugged up in the 90's :plzstop: she could've done so much more as far as creating an empire and brand. I think she got kind of lazy. :stressed: maybe discouraged when Big passed.
!!
In her bio she regrets partying all the time and putting men before her career
She could've been bigger than Mary..
Smh
Just dumb and stupid ...
It's always the naturally gifted ones that get caught into drugs and the party life
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:30:26 PM
Tae..
:bvy:
I really don't use that album
The cheap ass production and I hate the person who mixed it and mastered it
:plzstop:
Definitely doesn't compare to her first four albums, but she still gave some nice arrangements. I love a good portion of the album.
I wish there was a show on R&B singers :stressed: Kinda like Unsung but more detailed. I would like to know more about Kelly, Faith and others. And stories about working with other artists, etc.
BET, where the fuck are ya
Quote from: NexTae on September 29, 2015, 11:33:02 PM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:30:26 PM
Tae..
:bvy:
I really don't use that album
The cheap ass production and I hate the person who mixed it and mastered it
:plzstop:
Definitely doesn't compare to her first four albums, but she still gave some nice arrangements. I love a good portion of the album.
Bby I didn't even purchase it
I was so fucking angry
I have every faith Alber
The quality irks me
But she still has a crazy ass ear
I want to know all the behind the scenes tea with Mary/Faith/Kim/Missy
seems like that's where all the MESS was :kii:
This was really fucking CUTE. Wait Faye
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:21:29 PM
ssss
wait ... who came out first?
I mean I know they were both behind the scenes before breaking out
but I mean... it's a toss up... Kelly has the slight edge over Faith tho... she'll take any chicks mic and you just... jus wanna throw a shoe at Kelly tbh
[youtube start=300]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve1KeU7CWCQ[/youtube]
kelly kinda lashed
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2lvllo
:stressed:
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
I want to know all the behind the scenes tea with Mary/Faith/Kim/Missy
seems like that's where all the MESS was :kii:
!!!
Behind The Music spoke on Diddy/Faith/Mary
I understand why Mar' was FUMING. Diddy gave Faye her entire ghetto gorl/hood r&b soul image and Faith slayed it better than she did. :dead:
Mary knew it too. From the vocals, to the mug, etc. Faith always did it better :plzstop:
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
I want to know all the behind the scenes tea with Mary/Faith/Kim/Missy
seems like that's where all the MESS was :kii:
Don't forget to add Kim to the list
She was in the midst of a lot of the mess
Oh u did list Kim :dead:
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
I want to know all the behind the scenes tea with Mary/Faith/Kim/Missy
seems like that's where all the MESS was :kii:
!!!
Behind The Music spoke on Diddy/Faith/Mary
I understand why Mar' was FUMING. Diddy gave Faye her entire ghetto gorl/hood r&b soul image and Faith slayed it better than she did. :dead:
Mary knew it too. From the vocals, to the mug, etc. Faith always did it better :plzstop:
Faith had the image first :ohwow:
Mar' tried to make K-Ci her Big but too bad K-Ci didn't want her so it didn't work lolz
Yeah faith had all of that mess before Mary even started getting greasy :dead:
But a lot of people don't know that because my life came out before "faith" did :dead:
Mary didn't have a sound to steal..
Faith helped build her sound
Some of those records were faith demos from my life :kii:
B
Mary >
Lemme cut on "I can Love You"
And yeah Kci has said he NEVER wanted her and that Mary lied about the engagement
wow
whits getting dragged in here lol
That's why her praise and stanning for BRANDY always meant so much more to me. She always says she's one of the greatest alive, and that Brandy would sing most of these girls (old and new) under the table
Beasts know other beasts
:stressed:
Quote from: Hugo on September 29, 2015, 10:45:44 PM
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
GODly definitely can outsing most gorls.
she even tossed whit and mimi their wigs
!
The very first time I heard this, I went fucking crazy. :loose2when:
Sis really did the most DAMAGE on this, vocally
I remember her saying Whitney got upset with her cuz she felt like she was holding back. She wanted her to SANG. Nippy really pushed the girls. Ghan said she used to shake her tummy and tell her to sing from within. How she hated when she gave that baby girly rasp :stressed:
cfdddff @ that last line. Whitney ain't say all that hun
Quote from: NexTae on September 29, 2015, 10:53:44 PM
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 10:51:35 PM
Whitney >< Kelly
I'm sor', but Kel' dragged Whit' on "Heartbreak Hotel"
I can sorta agree with this. Not drag, but she gave the best vocal in that song.
whitney was already on the decline and didn't even try to do too much on that song. Whitney in her PRIME comes before anyone, and they'd all tell you that. Had this song been done in the early 90's .... Lolz
Quote from: De? on September 29, 2015, 10:58:40 PM
Quote from: iman on September 29, 2015, 10:55:53 PM
Whit had a pretty voice. Idk but I feel like she's overrated. Don't drag me guys.
It was her tone that sent the gorls into a frenzy. That, and the fact she could hold her notes so effortlessly(via. "IWALY")
ch
Are you people ok? she could literally do anything she wanted with her voice. Her music wasn't all that, but don't let the fact that you aren't a fan, cloud ur overall judgement. n
"Hold her notes" as if she's Monica. God no
kelly goes toe to toe with whitney in her prime, post-prime, etc etc etc
she just kinda slays! :cheerup:
Rig is kinda cleaning UP :ohwow:
Never heard anyone say Whitney was overrated. Wow
Quote from: FINE. on September 30, 2015, 01:02:15 AM
Never heard anyone say Whitney was overrated. Wow
I think that's the thing
people just "expect" everyone to regard Whitney as the greatest singer ever or something
I mean it's like people who act like Mariah's the only one who does a whistle note
plenty of people sing like these women and can hit the notes they can, whistle note like they can, etc.
it's just that compared to their contemporaries, these women were fucking slaying the competition vocally, AND they were pretty and petite.
Quote from: Herb. on September 30, 2015, 01:06:36 AM
Quote from: FINE. on September 30, 2015, 01:02:15 AM
Never heard anyone say Whitney was overrated. Wow
I think that's the thing
people just "expect" everyone to regard Whitney as the greatest singer ever or something
I mean it's like people who act like Mariah's the only one who does a whistle note
plenty of people sing like these women and can hit the notes they can, whistle note like they can, etc.
it's just that compared to their contemporaries, these women were fucking slaying the competition vocally, AND they were pretty and petite.
her voice is kinda untouchable. Everything else is debatable. n
well kelly touched it hun
molested it, even :ohwow:
Quote from: Herb. on September 30, 2015, 01:11:36 AM
well kelly touched it hun
molested it, even :ohwow:
did she eat it
Quote from: Herb. on September 30, 2015, 12:59:58 AM
kelly goes toe to toe with whitney in her prime, post-prime, etc etc etc
she just kinda slays! :cheerup:
oh dont get me wrong. she'd hold her OWN
but by no means is Prime Whitney overrated. she was rated just fine :dead:
:ohwow: @ ppl comparing Belly to Whit in her prime
Wow
Kelly really got dragged by her cankles in here.
Quote from: RIG on September 30, 2015, 01:13:35 AM
Quote from: Herb. on September 30, 2015, 12:59:58 AM
kelly goes toe to toe with whitney in her prime, post-prime, etc etc etc
she just kinda slays! :cheerup:
oh dont get me wrong. she'd hold her OWN
but by no means is Prime Whitney overrated. she was rated just fine :dead:
thats all im saying!
there's no way in Whit's prime or post-crack that she'd ether GODly vocally.
crackney <<
ojp9h0'8gf9;6d85
lil sis :omgwatshappening:
well put it owt on the table then
djfjfj
:traciandchelle:
lnhipu8go7yf68td57r64eu5
And Whitney was a lot more versatile
the girl knew when to coo, when to belt, and when to go straight church and lash everyone in the building. One of the smartest singers ever
She wasn't about to wail and growl just for the sake of it
judging by that post....u don't know GODly's work
wails! slave cries for nothing! absolutely nothing!
Kelly is FAR more of a vocalist than just wails and pentecostal cries.
like any amazing artist, she knows when to tone it down and let the words speak for themselves.
Quote from: RIG on September 30, 2015, 02:05:56 AM
And Whitney was a lot more versatile
the girl knew when to coo, when to belt, and when to go straight church and lash everyone in the building. One of the smartest singers ever
She wasn't about to wail and growl just for the sake of it
ffjjfj when has whit' went straight church luv??? Let me know.
She was one dimensional and the way her voice deteriorated. she wasn't that great tbqfh.
Kelly can still sing and that's a testament to how great of a singer she is. Singing as good as you did when you first made your debut >>>>>> pulling songs and performances out the archives
yeah come to think of it I can't remember Whit going straight Deep Fried Baptist ... :udontlookok:
she belted, belted some more...belted some more :udontlookok: and a lil more
then sat down somewhere
she wasn't a soul singer, nor did she ever really give that tea even if she wanted to.
so this jane of all trades mess Rig is tryna pull........ :sevynstreeter:
b
Y'all have lost it.
Her version of As We Lay> Shirley Murdock's.
Sorry, not sorry
SZDDmladmkslksdmflkdm @ Nip being a one dimensional singer.
:usureuok:
:cheerup:
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
I want to know all the behind the scenes tea with Mary/Faith/Kim/Missy
seems like that's where all the MESS was :kii:
It actually was :plzstop:
I've always been confused by Missy's friendship with Kim and Mary. I remember being on a Lil' Kim forum and there was a story about how Missy and Faith were roommates and Missy set Kim up to get her ass beat by Faith or something like that. I don't know how true that is though :dead:
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Yeah faith had all of that mess before Mary even started getting greasy :dead:
But a lot of people don't know that because my life came out before "faith" did :dead:
Mary didn't have a sound to steal..
Faith helped build her sound
Some of those records were faith demos from my life :kii:
Mary was greasy before "My Life" because there was nothing grilled about "What's the 411?" She had the around the way girl image from the jump. Faith wasn't around in 1991-1992 when Puffy was developing Mary unless there was some tea that I missed.
Faith was and is great, but stop.
Quote from: Herb. on September 30, 2015, 02:10:00 AM
judging by that post....u don't know GODly's work
wails! slave cries for nothing! absolutely nothing!
sfdffd that wasn't a shot at kelly. i know she isn't a one trick pony
just not
as versatile
Quote from: Herb. on September 30, 2015, 02:22:08 AM
she wasn't a soul singer, nor did she ever really give that tea even if she wanted to.
are y'all on drugs
I'll let the stans find clips to refute these claims bkhhhh but y'all KNOW better
fffff :plzstop: :uhh: Whit wasn't no damn soul singer
b
What makes a soul singer? The ability to emote right?
Quote from: SCOTTland on September 30, 2015, 02:47:27 AM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Yeah faith had all of that mess before Mary even started getting greasy :dead:
But a lot of people don't know that because my life came out before "faith" did :dead:
Mary didn't have a sound to steal..
Faith helped build her sound
Some of those records were faith demos from my life :kii:
Mary was greasy before "My Life" because there was nothing grilled about "What's the 411?" She had the around the way girl image from the jump. Faith wasn't around in 1991-1992 when Puffy was developing Mary unless there was some tea that I missed.
Faith was and is great, but stop.
There was nothing greasy about What's the 411 :uhh: That album is straight New Jack Swing /R&B love songs. Faith was around in 1994 with the My Life album tho which was Mary's breakthrough album.
Quote from: iman on September 30, 2015, 03:01:29 AM
fffff :plzstop: :uhh: Whit wasn't no damn soul singer
but she had the ability to do whatever she wanted when she was in her prime
some of the cleanest, crispiest runs EVER, and not just limited to belting
Quote from: RIG on September 30, 2015, 03:09:08 AM
Quote from: iman on September 30, 2015, 03:01:29 AM
fffff :plzstop: :uhh: Whit wasn't no damn soul singer
but she had the ability to do whatever she wanted when she was in her prime
some of the cleanest, crispiest runs EVER, and not just limited to belting
f
that's the thing. she didn't take risks vocally, IMO. and having crisp/clean runs doesn't always make someone a great singer. For instance, I never listened to her and felt "wow, I feel her pain/emotions" in a song. She always sounded PRETTY and CLEAN which isn't a bad thing but... yea.
Quote from: iman on September 30, 2015, 03:05:52 AM
Quote from: SCOTTland on September 30, 2015, 02:47:27 AM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Yeah faith had all of that mess before Mary even started getting greasy :dead:
But a lot of people don't know that because my life came out before "faith" did :dead:
Mary didn't have a sound to steal..
Faith helped build her sound
Some of those records were faith demos from my life :kii:
Mary was greasy before "My Life" because there was nothing grilled about "What's the 411?" She had the around the way girl image from the jump. Faith wasn't around in 1991-1992 when Puffy was developing Mary unless there was some tea that I missed.
Faith was and is great, but stop.
There was nothing greasy about What's the 411 :uhh: That album is straight New Jack Swing /R&B love songs. Faith was around in 1994 with the My Life album tho which was Mary's breakthrough album.
I said what I said.
And it wasn't really much greasy about "My Life" either besides her image. But umkay.
:hmph:
this performance. :stressed: Reasons why she's up there with Aretha, Sarah Vaughn, etc
Quote from: iman on September 30, 2015, 03:13:09 AM
Quote from: RIG on September 30, 2015, 03:09:08 AM
Quote from: iman on September 30, 2015, 03:01:29 AM
fffff :plzstop: :uhh: Whit wasn't no damn soul singer
but she had the ability to do whatever she wanted when she was in her prime
some of the cleanest, crispiest runs EVER, and not just limited to belting
f
that's the thing. she didn't take risks vocally, IMO. and having crisp/clean runs doesn't always make someone a great singer. For instance, I never listened to her and felt "wow, I feel her pain/emotions" in a song. She always sounded PRETTY and CLEAN which isn't a bad thing but... yea.
it sounds like she didn't take risks because it was so EASY for her iMO ss;dsd
but i understand what ur saying on that last part. I've never been a huge fan
Quote from: Baphomet. on September 30, 2015, 03:18:13 AM
this performance. :stressed: Reasons why she's up there with Aretha, Sarah Vaughn, etc
in her crackhead dreams
Aretha is the GOAT :stressed:
not the Lap Bands tryna up Kelly over Whit. :uhh:
Quote from: dede on September 30, 2015, 03:21:45 AM
not the Lap Bands tryna up Kelly over Whit. :uhh:
xxxxxdf
they so craze'. Gott' luv 'em.
oh and I forgot Nip's vocal agility :plzstop:
I didn't. They're two different types of singers but I still think Whit was/is overrated.
:udontlookok:
i wonder which one bran prefers. ya know, vocally...
:whatfuneralbill:
and to answer the original question, NO.
I wonder who Whit preferred Bran or Murderica lolz
(https://media.giphy.com/media/VZ5EXquWleyhW/giphy.gif)
vvccccvvv guys
i think the note Whit' handed to Bran said "that EP ain't fuckin comin" but u didn't hear it from me
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:50:16 PM
Whitney could fucking never.
[youtube autoplay=1 start=10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dybIBzdK0kc[/youtube]
please.
There's literally no vocal I can compare this to
Ugh :stressed:
Quote from: RIG on September 30, 2015, 03:43:34 AM
vvccccvvv guys
i think the note Whit' handed to Bran said "that EP ain't fuckin comin" but u didn't hear it from me
:plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop: :plzstop:
the way her voice soars :uhh: I need to get into Kelly's discography a bit :stressed:
Quote from: Baphomet. on September 29, 2015, 10:57:46 PM
Am mean.... Sis was kinda GODLY when it came to vocals.
These crystal clear notes...
Acapellla
:loose2when:
Ugh
But yeah it's weird because I don't think one can do what the other can do.
Kelly just seems like she can GO for days and never get tired. Her voice is so big and her range is sickening.
But Whitney was just the most effortless and vocally she could do almost anything as far as runs, range, tone, emote etc
However on stage I think Kelly could easily drown her out.
Although that doesn't necessarily make someone "better"
The problem with Kelly for me wasn't her weight. Her albums weren't all that good to me. I never used outside of the singles. I've never been compelled to finish any album of hers.
Let me take that back, I did love the "Kelly" album with "Not My Daddy" on there.
Yea i believe it. Sounds like she and Keke Wyatt have that in common smh their voices deserved
the BEST
Quote from: RIG on September 30, 2015, 03:55:47 AM
Yea i believe it. Sounds like she and Keke Wyatt have that in common smh their voices deserved
the BEST
Especially Keke. All of her albums were awful
KeKe's voice is one of THE BEST
But the music MAKES Me CRINGE
a complete travesty
Clive knew fucking TEA tho
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2z3xoc2.jpg)
These girls pretty much cover ALL grounds of the different types of black female singing
The cream of the fckn CROP
she definitely gave soul here:
Quote from: Marilyn on September 29, 2015, 10:41:31 PM
Her weight held back her career. She's probably the fattest R&B girl to ever get a record deal.
hhhhh
How old are you
Quote from: NexTae on September 30, 2015, 04:22:45 AM
she definitely gave soul here:
:stressed: :stressed:
im screaming at this screencap tho s;ssdd @ all this SWEAT when the song just
started
Lol @ afro and Iman. What kinda delusions. Nip>>>>>>Kelly. All day and all night long.
Quote from: NexTae on September 30, 2015, 04:22:45 AM
she definitely gave soul here:
Soul is basically Gospel influenced, and Whit was as church as it gets. She just didn't have the gritty delivery. But everything from the vibrato, to the power and conviction, that's Soul all day.
And to say Nippy wasn't versatile musically? But Kelly was?? fff
If you used Mariah as a comparison then yeah, but Kelly is no more multifaceted than Nippy is.
Kelly is nothing but boring rnb. Whit is kinda universal. Lolz
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:42:01 PM
Quote from: Baphomet. on September 29, 2015, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: Herb. on September 29, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
GODly definitely can outsing most gorls.
she even tossed whit and mimi their wigs
Oh gor'
no :overit:
Name one thing Whitney could do that GODly couldn't.
Now whitneys voice is unmatched she is the voice
Bellys voice is great but whitney was everything
Belly is lucky to have been singin wit ha and kelly knew it
Kelly slays, but she could NEVER trump Whitney. And I'm sure she would tell you that herself. Whitney in her prime has it all. Power, technique, range, falsetto (which Kelly doesn't come close to), runs, literally everything. And the overall effortlessness she possessed was icing on the cake. I saw someone say she never went straight church. Are yall out of your damn minds? :everythingok: That woman was straight church.
And her voice had already started declining at this point. But she ATE.
Like ugh. She is the fucking greatest no question. There's a reason all of the girls stan. Ghan included.
I just never hear about her in Europe. I mean Angie stone, erykah, Jill Scott, even faith but not Kelly
Quote from: SCOTTland on September 30, 2015, 02:47:27 AM
Quote from: Glock on September 29, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Yeah faith had all of that mess before Mary even started getting greasy :dead:
But a lot of people don't know that because my life came out before "faith" did :dead:
Mary didn't have a sound to steal..
Faith helped build her sound
Some of those records were faith demos from my life :kii:
Mary was greasy before "My Life" because there was nothing grilled about "What's the 411?" She had the around the way girl image from the jump. Faith wasn't around in 1991-1992 when Puffy was developing Mary unless there was some tea that I missed.
Faith was and is great, but stop.
Her entire persona changed for my life
Just accept it
She was heavily influenced by Faith and everything about her was shaped by Faith and also Faith's debut
Sis helped usher in an entirely different sound to Mary
My life and 411 sounds completely different ..
The difference was faith
She even gave sis a new style of singing and knowing how to use her instrument better
Quote from: Phantom on September 30, 2015, 08:26:14 AM
Kelly slays, but she could NEVER trump Whitney. And I'm sure she would tell you that herself. Whitney in her prime has it all. Power, technique, range, falsetto (which Kelly doesn't come close to), runs, literally everything. And the overall effortlessness she possessed was icing on the cake. I saw someone say she never went straight church. Are yall out of your damn minds? :everythingok: That woman was straight church.
And her voice had already started declining at this point. But she ATE.
Like ugh. She is the fucking greatest no question. There's a reason all of the girls stan. Ghan included.
I was about to post this
:plzstop:
Sis was really the greatest to ever grace a mic
following right behind Aretha of course :ohwow:
The way Whit could just BLOW everything and never do too much
She was and is the standard
Quote from: SCOTTland on September 30, 2015, 02:43:23 AM
Quote from: Bentley! on September 29, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
I want to know all the behind the scenes tea with Mary/Faith/Kim/Missy
seems like that's where all the MESS was :kii:
It actually was :plzstop:
I've always been confused by Missy's friendship with Kim and Mary. I remember being on a Lil' Kim forum and there was a story about how Missy and Faith were roommates and Missy set Kim up to get her ass beat by Faith or something like that. I don't know how true that is though :dead:
It was more like missy was Faith's friend but faith found out missy had been kicking it with Kim knowing that she was banging big and never told faith
Missy was staying with Faith Evans
Faith would tak Kim out and let her sleep over her house and take her shopping
Faith went to here Kim wnd missy was beat her ass and vowed to never be friends with missy again
They wouldn't speak for over a decade
Quote from: iman on September 30, 2015, 03:19:38 AM
Aretha is the GOAT :stressed:
But yeah :'(
Sis could yank my durag off with a damn humm
Quote from: SCOTTland on September 30, 2015, 04:01:47 AM
Quote from: RIG on September 30, 2015, 03:55:47 AM
Yea i believe it. Sounds like she and Keke Wyatt have that in common smh their voices deserved
the BEST
Especially Keke. All of her albums were awful
dffvv
Idk her debut is kinda epic :ohwow:
Quote from: Glock on September 30, 2015, 08:35:22 AM
My life and 411 sounds completely different ..
The difference was faith
I agree with this but I think Mary was deep fried out the gate. Faith influenced her sound but not her persona, look, etc.
Quote from: Gilgamesh. on September 30, 2015, 07:19:04 AM
Quote from: NexTae on September 30, 2015, 04:22:45 AM
she definitely gave soul here:
Soul is basically Gospel influenced, and Whit was as church as it gets. She just didn't have the gritty delivery. But everything from the vibrato, to the power and conviction, that's Soul all day.
and thank God she didn't have that delivery
She would've been stuck there and not had been able to translate those angelic vocals and pop finishes to the record
Quote from: Phantom on September 30, 2015, 08:53:57 AM
Quote from: Glock on September 30, 2015, 08:35:22 AM
My life and 411 sounds completely different ..
The difference was faith
I agree with this but I think Mary was deep fried out the gate. Faith influenced her sound but not her persona, look, etc.
Idk bby
Get into pics of Mary and faith chilling before 411!
Once Mary got word that faith got signed
Sis went completely blond and stopped using ..
Rushed her Alber out and haulted the release of Faiths Alber
That's why the "faith" album was printed with "love don't live" feat Mary but it doesn't have Mary vocals on oh
Sis was Fuming
Quote from: Glock on September 30, 2015, 08:58:19 AM
Quote from: Phantom on September 30, 2015, 08:53:57 AM
Quote from: Glock on September 30, 2015, 08:35:22 AM
My life and 411 sounds completely different ..
The difference was faith
I agree with this but I think Mary was deep fried out the gate. Faith influenced her sound but not her persona, look, etc.
Idk bby
Get into pics of Mary and faith chilling before 411!
Once Mary got word that faith got signed
Sis went completely blond and stopped using ..
Rushed her Alber out and haulted the release of Faiths Alber
That's why the "faith" album was printed with "love don't live" feat Mary but it doesn't have Mary vocals on oh
Sis was Fuming
Oh she fumed OWT for Love Don't Live :dead:
NVVBBNNNNNNNNNMMM
Sis was foaming :dead:
Look at ha
Dddd
(http://eil.com/images/main/Mary-J-Blige-You-Remind-Me-548498.jpg)
Wasn't puffy behind the scenes driving that rivalry?
Or was that much later
wow
GODly trumped whit in here :stressed:
Quote from: RED on September 30, 2015, 09:07:54 AM
Wasn't puffy behind the scenes driving that rivalry?
Or was that much later
I don't think he was driving a rivalry. I think he felt like he did amazing things for Mary's career but she wasn't HIS artist so when he found what he thought was the better version, that's where the focus went. And Mary couldn't quite take.
Quote from: Phantom on September 30, 2015, 08:26:14 AM
Like ugh. She is the fucking greatest no question. There's a reason all of the girls stan. Ghan included.
(http://i.imgur.com/s9byisB.gif)
Quote from: Baphomet. on September 30, 2015, 09:21:24 AM
Quote from: Phantom on September 30, 2015, 08:26:14 AM
(http://bymystique.com/pictures/2013/09/kelly-price-l.a-reunion-3.jpg)
Like ugh. She is the fucking greatest no question. There's a reason all of the girls stan. Ghan included.
(http://i.imgur.com/s9byisB.gif)
:stressed:
ds
f
f
ccv